Interesting read on electric cars

[Fizzie]

Its coming soon.

We had them yonks back!

https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-141694993/view

Same thing - the sugar cane is being converted into biofuel as they go!

[WilSurf]

Genuine questions....sorry if they've already been covered...

Can a home EV charger be configured to charge only from the rooftop solar?

If yes, how does it manage the variation in solar output during the day due to sun angle and cloud cover?

A charge rate that continually ramps up and down can't be good for batteries....

 

Yes, there are charges which only charge when there is solar input.

[WilSurf]

Well Wilsurf you say-
Glad I am not living in SA with $0.50 per kW.
Well you will be when you have to get on those cheap renewables instead of the coal and gas-
https://www.synergy.net.au/Blog/2022/06/What-makes-up-the-electricity-generation-mix-in-Western-Australia
and it's pretty hard for working commuters to charge their EVs at home during the day even with solar on the rooftop.

So say you're retired like me and you can? But what you forgot to cost in was the $5000 to $6000 worth of say 5kW rooftop solar plus $1500 of home charger install and the opportunity cost of those funds. Not a problem for me but what about those working families with mortgages or renters? Bearing in mind they're reducing the rooftop solar subsidy by $500/year until it's full user pays and they're no doubt working on how to make up for lost fuel excise at 53.68c/litre currently. You wouldn't last long in biz ignoring some capital costs and their opportunity cost of funds as well as their depreciation.

That is a few years old.
My understanding is that the coal power station in Collie is no longer in operation.

How far is the commute for the average worker? Around 30 km.
What is the range of a new EV? Around 300km. So the average commuter can drive a full week to and from work without the need to charge.

I am not retired, still work, and have a mortgage. But we had installed a solar system 8 years ago which is paying for itself for the last few years.

[WilSurf]

Sorry mate, not really. I live in WA too, have roof top solar since about 2015 with same import/export cost.
I sort of agree with some but not your summary.
Not importing electricity during the day though, needs some clarification.
How big in terms of consumption is the rating of the EV battery charger you are planning to install use?
Are you saying you can run your household and charge the EV without importing mains power? (365 day a year)
In your summary I do not understand why your power bill will rise 7 cents per kW when charging the EV.
I cannot see how you arrive at $16.92 for a full charge.
I am not trying to be difficult, rather just understand your post.
If I consume mains power it costs 27cents per kW. What happens to the kW's my solar produces are either consumed by my combined electrical appliances or exported to the grid for a whole 7c per kW.
Cant see why it would be any different in your case.

What I meant to say is that if we charge the car from 0% to 100% by using the grid and no solar, it will cost me $16.92 (60.4kW * $0.28)

[RebsWA]

What I meant to say is that if we charge the car from 0% to 100% by using the grid and no solar, it will cost me $16.92 (60.4kW * $0.28)

Thanks. That answers one of the questions.

[WilSurf]

Thanks. That answers one of the questions.

To answer your other questions.
- we are planning not to install a battery charger yet, will see how it goes. As the car will be used only for short trips <25 km each way, I don't see there is no need for a bigger charger.
- I am not saying we can run the house wiyhout importing at all. That's not even the case now without an EV. But we are down to around $120 each bill cycle.
- Our system is obvious thesame as yours. The produce kWs will be either used by the appliances or exported. What I wanted to message was that the only difference in cost compared to the linked articles which is charging at public DC chargers, our cost will be either at $0.28 per kW or $0.07 per kW charged compared to the quoted $0.50 per kW.

[RebsWA]

To answer your other questions.
- we are planning not to install a battery charger yet, will see how it goes. As the car will be used only for short trips <25 km each way, I don't see there is no need for a bigger charger.
- I am not saying we can run the house wiyhout importing at all. That's not even the case now without an EV. But we are down to around $120 each bill cycle.
- Our system is obvious thesame as yours. The produce kWs will be either used by the appliances or exported. What I wanted to message was that the only difference in cost compared to the linked articles which is charging at public DC chargers, our cost will be either at $0.28 per kW or $0.07 per kW charged compared to the quoted $0.50 per kW.

Thanks for your responses. I'll leave it at that.

[prodigyrf]

Here's the power problem (yes WA is running on some coal) as the sun goes down and WA is running 2/3rds on fossil fuels while the eastern NEM is running at nearly 3/4 on fossil fuels with plenty of brown and black coal-
https://www.energymatters.com.au/energy-efficiency/australian-electricity-statistics/
You can follow NEM mix and pricing here clicking on the Fuel Mix tab etc-
https://aemo.com.au/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-nem/data-nem/data-dashboard-nem
Early on with Qld experiencing high heat and consequent demand their wholesale price hit $112/kWhr but luckily NSW could ramp up coal and gas for them and now prices have settled down.

Note earlier in the day with sunny solar WA was only using 30% fossil fuel power and you can see the problem getting rid of coal and gas altogether. Attempting that along with electrification of transport will see all night time become the very expensive peak period and note how in SA we're already paying 50-54c/kWhr peak rates. No probs according to the brains trust we'll put up lots of offshore windmills but they're not making money and want a lot more consumer price rises above what's being sqwarked about already-
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/energy-bills-must-rise-pay-120000357.html
We live in interesting times.

 

[Bird]

interesting.. from the 80's..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftMxCehD08U

[prodigyrf]

As you know the brains trust have decreed you're all going to drive battery cars and they're all going to run on solar and wind. It's all under control which is why we're conducting some charging trials as we're always thinking of you-
https://thedriven.io/2024/01/26/australias-biggest-utility-begins-charging-trial-with-promise-to-fill-up-evs-for-5/

...the trial was ultimately designed to work out the best ways to manage car-charging demand.
“Not too far from now, we’ll be in 2030 and there’ll be something like three million EVs on the road,” he said.
“If all of those EVs turn up back at home at 6pm and plug into charge at the same time, we don’t have a grid that can handle that.”

[prodigyrf]

You will drive an EV and be happy! 
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2024/02/22/eu-proposed-ban-on-repairing-cars-older-than-15-years/

[prodigyrf]

It's clear EVs are only useful as urban second car runabouts for households with offstreet parking and charging-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/our-us-electric-car-road-trip-charging-disaster-and-what-it-means-for-australia/ar-BB1jnQBx

Otherwise the sensible choice is hybrid ICE and why they outsell EVs even though Toyota can't make them fast enough to satisfy demand-
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/vfacts-february-2024-another-record-month-for-australian-new-car-sales
Sales by propulsion or fuel type
Petrol: 46,533 sales, up 4.5 per cent
Diesel: 32,022 sales, up 21.1 per cent
Hybrid: 11,447 sales, up 100.2 per cent
Electric: 10,111 sales, up 70.4 per cent
Plug-in hybrid: 1034 sales, up 127.8 per cent

In any case basic ICE transport kills EVs for running costs because of awful EV depreciation before the price of all those coffees.

[WilSurf]

We have taken ownership of an EV and love it.

[Bird]

My take is if your buyin an EV to be green your doing it wrong...



if your doing it for short trips to work and back, all the power to you.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/electric-vehicles-worse-for-environment-than-petrol-cars-study-finds/news-story/2cc371a90a1f24275d864c893a629fea

[prodigyrf]

We have taken ownership of an EV and love it.

Yes they make great urban runabouts and cheap on fuel if you have rooftop solar which I have and ability to charge at home. Took the missus for a test drive early days with the BYD Atto 3 and a mate even bought one with NSW $3k rebate and before they went up $3k. Personally if we wanted one I'd go for a Tesla because of their charge network but too much depreciation for my liking with all of them. Hence we chopped the missus 4 year 4 month old Picanto in for the bigger StonicS because of the need to ferry the grandkids in kid seats.

But here's the rub with Labor's new blanket CO2 emissions penalty system beginning Jan1 2026. My low km 2015 diesel Challenger will see me out towing and 4WDing but younguns and tradies with that age diesel had best grab a new one in 2025 at the latest before they take an ugly price hike. Same with all petrol and diesel cars whereas best to put off an EV that will be cross subsidised by the scheme after 2026. With a 3 year old StonicS I've already put a deposit on a GLX Corolla Cross hybrid with anticipated delivery in 10 months time.

Get in and beat the rush ICE buyers particularly with thirsty big metal but no hurry if you're taking the plunge with EVs.

[WilSurf]

We got the BYD Dolphin and am awaing the WA rebate of $3,500.
As we have a solar system on our roof, at the moment we are charging between 8am and 5pm when the sun is up.
The car is only used for trips to theshop, the gym and my wife's work.
Perfect suited for the job and cheap to run.

Everyone to it's own, but there seems to be so much negativity towards EVs that is not funny anymore.

[prodigyrf]

My attitude with middle class welfare is simply this Wilsurf. It's every citizen's fundamental right to stick their hand up for any slushfunding going around and organise their affairs to legitimately maximize their after tax incomes. Nevertheless I can still argue Bowen and Co are off with the fairies with this stuff and none of it is helping struggletown with scarce resources and neither is it going to change the weather. New car buyers certainly don't need a taxpayer legup in that regard.

[RebsWA]

We got the BYD Dolphin and am awaing the WA rebate of $3,500.
As we have a solar system on our roof, at the moment we are charging between 8am and 5pm when the sun is up.
The car is only used for trips to theshop, the gym and my wife's work.
Perfect suited for the job and cheap to run.

Everyone to it's own, but there seems to be so much negativity towards EVs that is not funny anymore.

Negativity?
IMO there are very few EV's available that will only benefit a small percentage of the population. The rest are marketing experiments.
In your situation you are one of the few and that's good. Am I correct to assume your wife works from home given the charge times?
My negativity or more correctly, my considered opinion is, I do not believe the BS that collectively EV's will reduce carbon etc and save the planet when clearly they will not.
The pro EV crowd and the government do not seem to acknowledge that the "pollution" is simply moved from the tail pipe to places out of sight.
Canberra is pushing the EV issue cos their political lives depend on keeping the greens happy.
All the taxes and incentives they are dreaming up will ultimately result in the vehicles the majority of the population want and for good reasons being out of their financial reach.
Once that happens, what then, there will be little chance of turning back.
I am also interested in the expected cost of ownership of EV's as there is little data to date.
It would seem at this point in time to be an expensive vehicle, short life, prohibitive battery replacement cost with little resale value.
I find it interesting that some of the big ICE manufactures are winding down/putting on hold or whatever, EV manufacturing.
Bit strange if its the future of motoring, one would think they would be going gangbusters for a share of the market.
Here in WA light rail is pushing ahead and it seems a far better (greener) solution to moving people, but not much if any green noise about that.
FWIW I form my opinion based on research to sort out the fiction from fact.

[prodigyrf]

The pro EV crowd and the government do not seem to acknowledge that the "pollution" is simply moved from the tail pipe to places out of sight.

Yes largely to coal fired China that now burns 55% of the world's coal and why Western manufacturing is uncompetitive (we got out of subsidising carmaking with fortuitous timing)-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/how-europe-wants-to-punish-chinese-carmakers/ar-BB1joRnZ

With all the fairy dust sprinkled around about a renewables future you can click on the 'Fuel Mix' tab here every night when the sun sets and you'll regularly observe fossil fuelled electricity running at 70-85% of all power generated (currently 72%)-
https://aemo.com.au/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-nem/data-nem/data-dashboard-nem
Get rid of coal and ICE cars for commuter charging and welcome to peak night rates in the long run.

[prodigyrf]

You see Wilsurf it was never about saving the planet. It's all about control and the mad left don't want you driving anything and enjoying freedom so buying an EV won't save you from the crackers and their Labor/Teal/Green mates-
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-german-tesla-plant-fire-is-claimed-by-far-left-volcano-group/ar-BB1jqKD6
As for changing the weather with windmills and solar panels just be careful the Volcano Group don't want to start throwing virgins into volcanos to placate Gaia because when folk stop believing in God to explain the inexplicable they'll believe in anything 

[GeoffA]

...if your doing it for short trips to work and back, all the power to you....

If that's all it's used for, why bother??

[Bird]

If that's all it's used for, why bother??

[shanegtr]

I am also interested in the expected cost of ownership of EV's as there is little data to date.

Well, if you consider Hertz rental cars in the US then cost of fleet ownership is fairly well settled, they are more expensive. They are dumping their fleet of rental EV's as the numbers just don't add up

[rags]

The car is only used for trips to the shop, the gym and my wife's work.

My 2005 Suzuki Swift can do all that except I don’t drive it to the Gym and happy not to visit the wife at work.
Cheap motoring, basic third party insurance, tank of juice about once a month and is probably worth less than the govt rebate for an EV.

Great alternative to running around in the 300s

[Hairs]

Bowen's future.

You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.